Home Schoolers Please Read

Hmmm...I can see where this would make homeschoolers angry. Mainly the part that basically says that parents need to be certified and curriculum approved by the state. After all, isn't this why you homeschool? For one reason, to get away from the state and school your children the way YOU want to?

BUT, I can see a couple of the points made. I don't feel homeschoolers need to participate in school-run extracurricular activities. I think activities such as athletic, vocational (like Future Farmers of America) and academic activities (science bowl, FBLA) should be restricted to students enrolled in that school. However, if a group of homeschoolers wanted to start their own teams and either be approved by the state's Activities Association, or just play scrimmages against local schools, I support that. Being a part of your school's team is an honor. You are representing your school by good sportsmanship and teamwork. How can a homeschooler show school pride on a team if they don't support the school?

I also support the last part that says the school will decide placement and credits earned if a homeschooled student were to join the ranks of the public school. Using someone I know as an example: This guy (a cousin we try not to claim) homeschooled his children, but when the oldest was 10 and was tested, she was far behind where a 4th grader should be. He then made the decision that he wasn't a very good homeschooler (cough, no kidding, cough) and enrolled her in school. Had she been placed in a 4th grade class, the teacher would have struggled to catch her up and neglected the rest of the class. And with the whole no child left behind BS (yes, that is something I do not like from the Bush administration. Make a note of it, Lynn. LOL!), having that girl in the class where she should have been could have put the schools AYP in jeoperdy.

AYP is a stupid thing. We are having problems with it in our school. See, the school tests most of the kids (3rd-11th grade, except either 9th or 10th, I forget which). But then when the results are figured out, everything is broke down into subgroups. A subgroup for blacks, for Native Americans, Asians, Hispanics, economically disadvantaged, etc. The entire school could have passed, but if one of the 37 subgroups fail, then the whole school fails and doesn't pass AYP (then the media makes a huge deal out of it). And in a school the tiny size of ours, it doesn't take much not to make AYP. And I'll tell you why. Because a family from Mexico moved here with 4 kids who never attended any school before, and none of them knew English, or even knew how to read Spanish. But they moved here a month before the testing. So we had to test them. And we failed AYP in the Hispanic subgroup. Therefore, the entire middle school was given a big black mark. Get that mark 3 years in a row, the state takes over the school. Now you may not think that one family would be a big deal. But when you class sizes are 10-20 kids for an entire grade, it makes a BIG deal. And NCLB wants schools to be 100% proficient by 2014! HA! NOTHING is 100%, nothing except death and taxes, my friend.

Sorry, not my blog. As a public school mom (and I'm sleeping with a school board member. Shhh, don't tell my husband. LOL!), I can see part of what the NEA is talking about. I do agree though that the state doesn't need to get involved in WHO schools the children, what their creditials are, or what the curriculum is.

(Jil, I edited your entry to fix the page--the long url was throwing things out of whack. No worries, I'm happy to do it.)

This has been essentially the NEA's position since forever. I'm not overly threatened by it myself; I just take it into account.

Lynn Siprelle, Editor

(First, thanks Lynn,on the edit, didn't realize the link was so long)
As for the sports and grade entering thing, I was fine with that, as where ever I have lived there have been home school groups big enough to have our own sports, and we do classical education. The only down side is that my son will be 6 before he is "old enough" to enter kindergarten (because of when his bday falls), yet has been reading since three. SO, that means he'd be basically three years ahead of the grade he should enter, since we figured that if he could read, he could look into other subjects that were appropriate for kindergarteners / first graders reading at that level. But, I do see why they should get to decide if you enter their school. However, I was really insulted by the fact that they would want to make what they teach in school mandatory for home schoolers, where I know many home schoolers who teach more rigorously than the public system, so our kids would fly through a public curriculum.

Oh, and Jenny...I can't stand NCLB either!! Even with my republican roots and all!! My husband (he's a statistician) worked for a testing center that was studying results of NCLB, and was so fed up with the way it is tying teacher's hands that he couldn't work there anymore. Another reason we homeschool...not because of the teachers, but because of what teachers can't teach anymore because they're too busy making sure ALL students pass a stupid test. Whatever happened to parental accountability?

So many good teachers and even principals hamstrung by testing-obsession!!

The NEA resolution has been making the rounds of my local e-lists for homeschoolers. I guess there is a petition.

The curriculum part is what really chaps my ass, so to speak. I mean come on, how many teachers in your neighborhood school wouldn't love to be able to make some new curriculum choices if they could afford it?!

I am somewhat perplexed that the NEA takes a stand on homeschooling at all. I am all for unions as a means for employees to get a fair shake, but what does that have to do with me and my kids?

Shaun
www.redseahomeschool.wordpress.com

In a small town (and a large town for that matter), property tax goes to pay for the schools...including extra-curricular activities (yes, even though they have fund raisers, some of our tax money pays for uniforms, supplies, and some of the traveling expense). So, because my money which would have been used to educate my children is NOT being used on their books, their supplies, etc, they should be allowed to participate in sports that I'm already paying for. If they believe it is "their school" and my children should not be allowed to have the honor of playing on "their team", perhaps there should be a way for them to not get my money. Voucher system anyone? But like I said, at present time, we live in an area where home schoolers can have their own because of our abundance. But, as we are still graduate students, who knows what town we will end up in?

On my way out of town for the weekend, but a real quick response to the sports and taxes:
So, the sports activities may be good enough but not the school? Well, maybe. If the homeschooled child is good enough to be on the team in the first place. High school sports ARE about winning, in addition to sportsmanship and fun. It's about teamwork and school pride, and going to the state championships and wearing that state badge and letter jacket with pride.

And I support vouchers. But with the percentage of MY taxes that go to my school (which I will have to look, but it MAY total about $20 a year. Taxes on my whole place: 1,600 acres and two houses and 50 cows; comes out to about $800 a YEAR. But in our district, very little money comes from taxes for the school for athletics. I'll check with my husband on this, though, over the weekend. He knows the whole budget for the school.

...is that you're in the school or you're out of the school. If we start thinking, "but my tax money is going to support it," then we start down the road of not requiring folks with no kids at home to pay school taxes. My taxes go to support a lot of things I don't use, and that's the cost of being part of a community. We have no intention of using school services until community college, which Josie can start attending around age 15 if she wants to. My god, that's only five years!

Lynn Siprelle, Editor

There are things that my tax money goes to that I do not use as well...but I have the option of using. If a school is "public" then it's facilities and organizations are public, and we should have the option to use parts of the public school. And yes, it is possible that the classrooms, teaching, curriculum are not good enough, but the teams are. There are multiple reasons for homeschooling, and some of those reasons may have nothing to do with the school itself, but the parent's view on education vs. what the school is currently doing.

Ok, so you want your kid to join a school team but not the school (which I'm with Lynn on this one. You are either in the school or not in the school). Do you get to pick the school, or only the school in your district? If one school has a good football program, and another a good basketball program, do you get to join the football one at school A and the basketball at school B? Or split your kids up between schools? Some schools have part of their practices during school hours (like a 1st period volleyball practice in addition to afterschool practice. The 1st period practice counts as their PE credit). Will your child go the practice 1st period?

I think there are probably good arguments to make for the "in or out" view. I just don't think there are good legal/policy arguments for it. I also know that partial homeschooling has been a major blessing for families whose kids deal with learning disabilities, profound giftedness, or PT/OT needs. I'm glad schools are open to it here.

Of course, Minnesota is the premiere charter school state, and we also have many magnets in addition to neighborhood schools (all of which are public schools) so school choice is a prominent feature of our public education system. As a result, your school is one of many communities that your family belongs to, rather than a primary part of a community. The kids on your block may all go to different public schools.

So the questions you raise, Jenny, probably have different answers here than they would where you are.

As far as sports go, it's really hard for me to envision a homeschooling family who would go to such extremes for sports teams, unless maybe the reason they homeschool is that their child is the next Michael Jordan, in which case -- hell yes, let the kid play! Count yourself lucky! But then again, prep sports are not my thing, and I know they are huge for you and your family, Jenny. We do have some major prep sports machines in the Twin Cities, but they are all private schools.

Shaun
www.redseahomeschool.wordpress.com

I don’t want my kids to participate in public school activities, I think it opens doors for more government control then I want to deal with. And don’t get me started on what my taxes are being spent on….

I agree with you jamielea. I think organized sports have benefits, but for my family the benefits do not outweigh the reasons we chose not to send our children to public school. I prefer to not be involved with the public school system in any way.

I pay my property taxes as a member of society and count my blessings that they leave me alone. I don't agree with the way they spend tax money here, but as long as they leave me alone with my homeschooling then I'll keep my opinions about their spending to myself I would love vouchers but I feel that along with them would come government intervention. I prefer to continue living frugally to pay for everything from our budget than to have anyone in government tell me what is best for my children!

Unless one of my children were profoundly gifted in sports (which is quite rare) I see no reason they can't reap the same benefits of organized public school athletics from other activities. We're fortunate that there are organized sports opportunities in various forms offered for homeschoolers in our area as well as community leagues they can participate in just for fun.

There are ways to learn comradery, teamwork, pride, etc. outside of public school sanctioned athletics. If I feel a need in the future to work on these issues with my children I will address it then.

Our community is much like Shaun's...we have multiple schools to choose from and neighbors don't actually all go to the same school. We have the magnet schools that specialize in music, some in sports, others in advanced academia, etc. They are even considering a magnet Montessori school. OR you can put your child in the school that is their "default" school, if you don't care where they go.

As of now, we don't use the sports anyway, but I'm saying that if I needed to (like Zach really wanted to play a sport and there was no community league) that there should be no problem with home schoolers playing. I mean, we had home schoolers in our jazz band, which practiced first hour, and it wasn't a big deal. In fact, they were great musicians, and I think added much to our band. I was public schooled, and yes, band would count as a fine arts credit for me, and not the home schoolers, but I think if anything, they practiced more than I did, because it wasn't for a credit, it was something they really wanted to do, and really, if I got busy with something else, I did only what I had to to pass...not that I screwed up the music or anything, I just didn't push myself to improve. So, yes, if my kid had a practice scheduled daily that was everyone else's 1st period, he would go. Of course, at the school I went to, if you got to have a class designated as practice, there were rarely after school practices as well. The school preferred that classes were used only for academic purpose, and that sports were considered extra-curricular. Choirs had "zero hour" which started before the rest of the school day, as did the dance teams. Some teams had zero hour as well, but I don't know of any sports that were allowed a class hour as practice (and we won games on a regular basis, so I suppose it's not as essential as some coaches think to run your players ragged).

Jenny...my husband grew up in a community like that, it still is like that. Actually, grades k-6 were in a one room school house, with 2 teachers. Then, they got bussed for Jr. High and HS. His dad still attends the sporting events, even though the kids are grown and gone!! Something to do, I suppose(but you'd think he'd be busy enough with those cows!).

My question for you then, is, given a homeschooled family moves in, and the son is an amazing football player, who had been allowed to play in a previous state, would you honestly turn him down, if that really is ALL THERE IS in your town? And if he wasn't an amazing player, but still wanted to play, would that make a difference? If school sports is all there is, you're then saying, "Homeschooling might work for you, but that means you can't socialize with us!" That kind of all-or-nothing attitude seems a little harsh to me. Kind of sounds like, "Join our religion, or move out!"

How are you going to prove eligibility for this player? You have to have Cs or better to play sports, no Ds or Fs. Can you accept grades just on the basis of what his mom gives him? So say he makes straight A's at home. Is he being tested on concepts that are his grade level? Now, you may say "well, some teachers stretch things so a star player will remain eligible". Not here. Our star player, Jesus, had to spend time off the team last year for a problem with grades. Yeah, it hurt the team, we didn't get to go to regionals and blew our chances of going to state. But at least the teachers were honest.

Being part of a school team IS like "join our religion, or get out". Either you embrace all the school has to offer, or don't at all.

The money to pay for coaches, teachers, uniforms, etc., isn't coming from taxes. It's coming from student enrollment. The school gets so much money for each child. THIS is the reason why we couldn't replace the aide that retired last year: our enrollment numbers dropped, mostly due to fuel prices. Most of our students are out of district, folks from town that sure don't want their kids in the town school. A good football player is just another player in town. But out here, he will SHINE (especially since we don't have tryouts. We take any warm body that has some coordination. Except for cheerleading. You HAVE to tryout for that, thankyouverymuch. I say that as one of the cheer sponsors, which I volunteer for). Of course, there are other reasons town folk like to send their kids to the country school. Smaller classes, country values, etc. But with the high fuel prices, some parents find it easier for the kids to ride the bus in their own district. Another reason may be because we now have 4-day week. Which works great for me, as a SAHM. I sure enjoy the kids having a 3-day weekend every week. But some working families it may not, since they have to find daycare or babysitters for younger school children. ANYWAY, my point is, not enrolling a child in the school but expecting him to be able to play sports there isn't fair to the school. The school is losing money for that kid to play sports there. Is THAT fair? If a child needs/wants to play that badly, either join the city league in town, or embrace the school as a whole.

Sounds like your FILs community is like ours. Our school has one teacher for each grade in elementary, and we don't have many electives to need a wide range of teachers in the high school levels. There isn't a single business here, unless you count the cropduster down the road and the farms/ranches. There are three churches, but they don't have enough congregation to have any activities outside of a Sunday service and maybe Sunday School. The school really is all we have, and if enrollment numbers keep dropping, we are liable to lose the whole school. If that happens, our village will be another ghost town.

I don't even have kids that play ball, but we still go to games. We went to games before we had kids and after my SIL graduated, so there was NO ONE for us to really go root for, just the school as a whole. My husband went to school here and played ball, and his daddy went to school here and played ball. Off topic, but how many cows does your FIL run? We run 50 head on 1,200 acres. Plus we farm another 1,500 acres of hay that we cut and bale in big 1 ton bales, sell it to local dairies. Unless you are a farmer, rancher, or teacher, you work in town. There is NOTHING here. LOL!

Here is our town I put on my website. There are a few pictures of the nothingness that we have:
http://www.jandjessary.com/ourtown
and just for fun, here is our schools web page:
http://www.floydbroncos.com/home.aspx

Hmmm, I don't know how many acres (you'd think I'd know, we've only been married 6+ years), but currently I do know that they are milking 70 head. I know they have enough land to grow their own hay, but this year was dry, and they had to buy some. As for the town, they have a post office, which is only kept in business due to my MIL's business http://www.genevasprings.com The school closed this year (they were still running it with all grades and a total of two teachers up to last year), and there is a church. Just one. It's quiet there, not a bad get-away, but I don't think I could live there. It takes too long to get to the nearest town, and I'm a last minute shopper, for sure. To get to a town large enough to have a WalMart, it takes about 2 hours. Ug.