To fight, or wait...

Four years between kids is perfect, to my mind. I didn't want my children to be any closer together than four years. I felt (and still do) that my little one deserved as much of my time and attention as I could give her until that age, which I wouldn't be able to do if I had another when she was two or three.

However, a) this is for me and myself only, I'm not saying this works for anyone else but me and b) it hasn't worked for me anyway. I've lost two pregnancies since DD turned four (we started trying again several months before her 4th bday). She's six now and probably won't get another sibling until she's eight or nine, IF I can ever carry to term again. I'm almost postive that we'll be going the adoption route in two years.

I strongly, emphatically, strenuously believe that a woman has the right to the birth experience that she wants. If you cannot find a Dr. who will work with you to do a VBAC (and you've already had a successful one, no reason to think that another wouldn't be just as successful is there?) then either slip across state lines for the birth or wait.

I, personally, think that you have the strength and endurance to fight the system, but if you don't feel like you have enough support from community or family to do so or do not want to, by all means save your energy for fights you think you can win.

When is the vigil? I'd be happy to light a candle in solidarity over here and say some prayers for your community that day.

Anhata
www.familynaturally.com
Your Family's General Store, Naturally

There are underground midwives. Just sayin'. Is it possible you could spend your final couple of months elsewhere? Deliver at, say, your mom's? I'm sure there are reasons that mightn't work, but it's an idea.

Lynn Siprelle, Editor

I found a website with a quick Google search with the keywords "midwife Indiana" and found www.home4birth.com and www.indianamidwives.net and Citizens for Midwifery. I'm sure they have an email address where you can contact them with questions and such.

Anhata
www.familynaturally.com
Your Family's General Store, Naturally

I did go to the websites, and they all stated that they were willing to participate in normal pregnancies. I suppose what is keeping me from emailing them is that I fear a VBAC may not count as a normal pregnancy. I know I won't know til I ask, but the fear lurks in the back of my mind every time I reach for the phone or email address.

I'm glad to hear 4 years was nice for you Anhata, I'd considered that as well. Having these two 22 mos. apart hasn't been too bad, we still have time to read stories together, work on projects, and play pretend without me feeling too stretched. I do worry sometimes what might change about that if we had a third right away. My mother-in-law was telling me that she had the first few about 18 mos apart, but then had three years between sub-sequent (she had 6 children) and really enjoyed the three year span, so I shouldn't feel pressured to try right away, and enjoy what I've got. But sometimes, there's just that ache to add to the family that I really can't explain. Nothing logic can take away.

On the UPSIDE, a friend of mine who is working with me on the vigil told me of a doctor here who is actually AGAINST c-section. It came up in a funny way, as one of her friends was in labor for almost four days, and was upset that he wanted nature to take it's course and let her body deliver as it needed to. He kept encouraging her to stay with it, rather than asking him to intervene with a c-section, though he would if she really wanted it. So, I looked him up. I missed him prior because he's not with a group practice, so there was his little name among all these big ads in the YellowPages. Now, to decide if another one is what I really want, or if this feeling is going to be fleeting and I'll wish I hadn't let myself become pregnant. *sigh* Oh, and I want to meet the doc. first. See if I like him.

Oh, and the vigil is scheduled for Friday, April 20th. We'd do it earlier, but we wanted the clean-up put with it, and while that would have worked last year, there are at least 3 feet of snow right now. We'd do March, but I've already planned a neighborhood chili cook-off, and I don't like having too many neighborhood things in one month.

I did go to the websites, and they all stated that they were willing to participate in normal pregnancies. I suppose what is keeping me from emailing them is that I fear a VBAC may not count as a normal pregnancy. I know I won't know til I ask, but the fear lurks in the back of my mind every time I reach for the phone or email address.

I'm glad to hear 4 years was nice for you Anhata, I'd considered that as well. Having these two 22 mos. apart hasn't been too bad, we still have time to read stories together, work on projects, and play pretend without me feeling too stretched. I do worry sometimes what might change about that if we had a third right away. My mother-in-law was telling me that she had the first few about 18 mos apart, but then had three years between sub-sequent (she had 6 children) and really enjoyed the three year span, so I shouldn't feel pressured to try right away, and enjoy what I've got. But sometimes, there's just that ache to add to the family that I really can't explain. Nothing logic can take away.

On the UPSIDE, a friend of mine who is working with me on the vigil told me of a doctor here who is actually AGAINST c-section. It came up in a funny way, as one of her friends was in labor for almost four days, and was upset that he wanted nature to take it's course and let her body deliver as it needed to. He kept encouraging her to stay with it, rather than asking him to intervene with a c-section, though he would if she really wanted it. So, I looked him up. I missed him prior because he's not with a group practice, so there was his little name among all these big ads in the YellowPages. Now, to decide if another one is what I really want, or if this feeling is going to be fleeting and I'll wish I hadn't let myself become pregnant. *sigh* Oh, and I want to meet the doc. first. See if I like him.

Oh, and the vigil is scheduled for Friday, April 20th. We'd do it earlier, but we wanted the clean-up put with it, and while that would have worked last year, there are at least 3 feet of snow right now. We'd do March, but I've already planned a neighborhood chili cook-off, and I don't like having too many neighborhood things in one month.

but surely if you've already had a successful VBAC then a second natural birth isn't really a VBAC at all... kind of technically speaking?? I mean if you wanted to argue it in a court of law (and you didn't get a white middle-aged judge who made the law about midwives in the first place) you might successfully argue that you can only have one successful VBAC, and any subsequent natural births are technically not "after caesarean" at all. Anyway the whole point of concern over VBAC is the safety issue, and if you've proven your body's capable of a natural birth then surely the point is moot.

Glad you've found a sane doctor though, but it's good to have a fallback position just in case. Now you can relax a bit and see, as you say, whether it's what you really want. My kids are 2yrs 4mths apart and most people think they're twins because DD is short for her age and DS is average, but they look similar and they always play together. I think it's what I was aiming for, but it could drive me crazy before they're done. DH and his older sister are 6yrs apart and get on great as adults, and also when they were quite young (DH is the baby of 4) but inevitably they were a bit estranged in their teenage years because of the difference.

Kerri.

But it's not how the Indiana medico-legal system works. And in Indiana, while there are underground midwives, they risk jail time for attending homebirths; especially if something goes wrong, even if the mother does not sue or anything, a doctor might find out that there was a midwife attending at home, at which point he can call the police and have the midwife arrested for "practicing medicine without a license." Indiana midwives have gone to jail in those situations. So since a VBAC is technically a little more likely to go wrong, I'm not sure if even an underground midwife would be willing to take on the extra legal risk. In the hospital, no one would be willing to touch a VBAC in Indiana.

You might be able to find someone in Michigan or Illinois-- either going to a hospital in one of those states, or seeing if there is a midwife who is willing to risk crossing state lines. I don't know what the climate in either of those is like, except that they are "blue-er" states than Indiana; often that means slightly more flexible birth climates. Anyway, I'd first find out all possible options before deciding whether to have another right away or not.

The funny part was, my local hospital has classes on how to have a successful VBAC...but finding a doctor to do it was tough. Weird. As I mentioned, I did find one, so now, to decide on spacing.

As for the after one VBAC it's not a VBAC...nope...didn't hold water as an argument for my friend. She had a c-section, then a VBAC, moved to good ol' Indiana, and was basically told that she could attempt the VBAC, but if her doc was needed for something else, and couldn't "watch her" she'd have to have another c-section even if she'd been laboring, so she might as well go with a planned c-section to decrease her chances of having to go through both. She was very upset, as she was already pregnant and facing this dilemma. Here's the part that irked her the most...she moved after this, got her records transferred, was reading them, and noticed that although the doctor in Indiana had "Strongly discouraged her" from a second VBAC, his notes to the new doc were that she was told VBAC was a viable option that that she opted out. Talk about covering his butt! Anyhow, she had c-sections with all the following children.