"Radical Food Reform"
That's what's needed according to international obesity experts meeting in Sydney, Australia:
Farm policies such as government agricultural subsidies have been damaging peoples' health for decades, leading obesity expert Philip James told the 10th International Congress on Obesity in Sydney on Monday. ...
"We have concentrated on using taxpayers' money to featherbed the very parts of the food chain that are causing the obesity epidemic today," James told more than 2,000 academics and health professionals at the four-yearly conference.
"The over-production of oil, fat and sugar, largely due to government subsidies to protect farm industry revenues, has contributed over decades to the health crisis we have today."
Ya think? I object to those subsidies not only for health reasons but because they're not going to family farms; they're going to agribusiness. We have better uses for our tax monies than corporate welfare.
One thing that this conference has highlighted is something that folks studying traditional diets keyed in on a while ago: People aren't eating more, they're eating worse:
Health experts at the week-long congress starting on Monday said calls for the past 30 years for people to eat less fatty foods and exercise more had failed to combat global obesity. ...
"We know this is not about gluttony -- it is the interaction of heredity and environment," said [conference co-chair Kate] Steinbeck.
New obesity research has found that too little sleep and fats from fast food can alter a person's biology, making them more susceptible to overeating and less active, said the International Association for the Study of Obesity. ...
"Early humans sought energy-dense food with high levels of fats, starches and sugars. We are genetically programmed to find foods with these qualities appealing," said [obesity researcher Dr. Anne-Thea] McGill.
"However, highly energy-dense Western diets have had many of the flavour and micronutrients processed out of them. The artificial replacements in starchy, fatty and sugary foods make them over-palatable and easy to eat quickly."
But too much processed food results in an excess energy intake deficient in micronutrients, producing a state of "malnutrition", which in turn sees the body react to a "famine stress" by storing fat around the upper body, said McGill.
"Many over-the-counter remedies such as concentrated herbal preparations, food extracts, minerals and vitamins are promoted as helping to decrease body weight," she said.
"However, they do not redress the nutrient imbalance from poor diets that produce obesity."
This is what we've been trying to do in our home--get rid of the processed crap--and you know, it's extremely easy to fall back into the habit of buying and eating that stuff, even if you're fairly dedicated. Just today I ate way more cookies and chips than I should have while watching some friends perform an amateur Shakespearean production. It's also easy when you're not feeling well to buy this stuff because the alternatives take time and work to produce.
And sometimes, let's face it, you just want it. Like the researcher said, this crap's been made "overpalatable," which, translated from the researcher-ese, means "betcha can't eat just one." I'm finding that letting any of it into the house is a bad idea.
John and I had just finished talking about this very issue when I read this article. Here's hoping I can get back on the stick, and soon.
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There are many issues to
There are many issues to comment on here, but I am wondering what Lynn is - why can't our country support our farmers without subsidies? Why is it so dysfunctional? How can we fix it? I live in the middle of farmland - dairy farmers, ranchers, wonderful productive crops of all kinds within a mile of my house, but I know the farmers are struggling right in my backyard. But yet we all need to eat. There is a disconnect somewhere there.
Processed food - I am becoming more and mjore convinced that it is a bad thing - for my own physique,that of my family, and our country. Chips are a treat - not something you have everyday!
Andrea
Bull $#@
Farm subsidies ARE going to family farms! I'm proof! And these days, it's the ONLY way family farms are staying in business. Funny, we were talking about this just this weekend with some other farmers we were camping with. LOL!
Now, I can't help it if agribusinesses are getting subsidies as well. But to cut the help off is just cutting the throats of the family farmers. And I don't know a single farmer that doesn't get some sort of assistance in the form of subsidies.
Let me tell ya this. Farm equipment prices have skyrocketed. Equipment has to keep up with technology, therefore the prices of the equipment has gone up, up, UP! Ten years ago, we had a baler that was a piece of crap for $15,000. My husband was getting off that thing every two bales to fix the knotter. That's getting off the tractor, climbing up the ladder on the baler, fixing something using a flashlight because the only time you can bale hay is in the middle of the night here (which is a long, complicated process that I won't go into here). When we finally couldn't patch together that old machine anymore, we bought a newer, but still used one. For $50,000. A BRAND NEW one is over $75,000! But with the newer one, he only has to check the knotter twice a night usually. But still, machinery wears out, and you can only patch it for so long. Eventually, you can't find parts for older machines. And parts! Do you realize how expensive THOSE get! I can spend $10,000 a year at least in just parts! Time is also money. It takes time to fix machines. Two years ago, my husband needed me to run to Texas to get some parts and race them out to the field. When he got done baling, one hour later, it started raining, then snowing! Had I not been the one to get the parts, my husband would not have finished baling. And we would have had some black hay sitting there in that field for weeks til it would have dried out to bale again.
Don't worry, I have a point here.
New set of hay rakes: $15,000
New tractor: $100,000
New Pickup with NO bells and whistles like power windows or door locks (you have to get to and from the fields): $30,000
New swather (that's what we use to cut the hay): $75,000 or MORE
Then you have to look at the price of diesel. Farm diesel these days is getting real close to $3/gallon. 5 years ago, it was .64 cents a gallon. We can easily burn 200 gallons a day when we are plowing, or planting, or cutting, or baling, or hauling (and we sell and haul local. That is, within 60 miles of the field). And that's not irrigating at all. That is dryland farming, depending solely on rainfall. Wanna add irrigation costs? For ONE pivot circle of wheat, we were paying $5,000 a MONTH for a combination of natural gas and diesel to operate our 4 wells for ONE circle.
Now, the cost of a ton of hay has barely budged in many years. We sold it last year for $80/ton. This year, we HAVE to go up. We hope to get $100/ton. If we are lucky.
Wheat prices have changed very little. So has corn. So has milk. So has milo. So has peanuts. I can't speak for soybeans, I don't know anyone here that grows that. But EVERY SINGLE FARM and DAIRY here are family run. In fact, I have NEVER SEEN a corporate farm or dairy or feedlot or ranch. And we are talking the whole eastern side of New Mexico and west Texas.
Subsidies are what KEEPS the family farms in business. If it weren't for programs like EQIP, NAP, CRP, and others, there would be NO family farms or ranches. See what I'm saying? The price of the product has not gone up with the price of what it takes to get that product here. Not much, anyway. But if it did, you would not be able to afford to buy your milk, or bread, or beef, or vegetables or fruits, or anything else it takes to feed a family.
It costs $7,000-9,000 to put up ONE MILE of fence. And I have 7 miles of exterior fences to rebuild (this is paid for by the US Air Force since they had a fire that got out of hand on the nearby bombing range and it burned up those fences plus 900 acres of my ranch and nearly got my house and cattle. Thankfully, they admitted to their mistake and paid us to replace those fences. And thankfully, it was the air forces fault. If it had been lightening that caused that fire, I may not be getting anything). And about 4 more miles of interior fences that desperately needed rebuilding before the fire since they were 75 years old at least. Thankfully, a government program is helping, not completely doing it, but helping us, to rebuild that fence.
Now, I don't live off the gov't subsidies. But without them, the family farms would die. And you would be paying an arm and a leg for your food when it has to be shipped in from other countries.
Also, take into consideration about what makes an agribusiness. Is it a coop of family farms? Like I said before, I have never seen a farm or dairy or ranch that wasn't run by a family. Family farms aren't just a few acres anymore. Me and my DH farm 1,200 acres on our own. That's no hired hands. And that is about all we can handle. We also ranch an additional 1,200. That, we can handle more. But right now, we can't afford to buy more at this time. Work on a ranch is easy. It's the cost to buy the land, fence, and cattle that is hard.
Every dairy I know is family run. And I know about 60 of them in just our two counties here. Cows aren't milked by hand anymore, they have quite a few hired hands there. And the typical dairy here milks 5,000 cows a DAY. That's 2-3 semi loads of milk hauled out of there a day. And then they are taken to the local run milk and cheese plants.
What I'm saying here is, when you see a big dairy, or even a feedlot with cows waiting to go to the butcher, don't automatically assume that because you see thousands of cows, that it's a big cooperate run operation.
As for obesity. All I can say is try not to buy or eat it. I'm really sorry that food that you buy everyday doesn't help obesity. But not everyone has that problem with junk food. Or fast food. Yes, I have a high metabolism. And I guess my children do, too. Because we eat McDs or Sonic or Wendy's sometimes once a week. And I LOVE to go to Chili's and have me a big ol' juicy Mushroom Swiss Burger with Fries (which, according to Weight Watchers, is 42 points. And if I were doing Weight Watchers, I would only be allowed 20 points per DAY!). I'm lucky. Sure, I would like to lose 10 pounds. But I'm not too shabby at 135 pounds, those 10 pounds are my own vanity of wanting to have a flatter tummy so I can wear the jeans I had before I had 4 children.
To blame obesity on farm subsidies just isn't fair, nor is it right.
Sorry, Lynn. You struck a chord with me on this (you knew you would.
) And I'm sorry I hogged your blog. Guess I had some venting to do. And I know in past years we have done this before. I just had to restate my stance once again. LOL! Hopefully, someone learned something new about farming. LOL!
The only way
I agree Lynn, the only way you can keep from eating that stuff is to not bring it into the house. Since my son and daughter have moved out on their own, we just don't buy junk food. We feel so much better because of it. We really do have more energy. When we are hungry for sweets I make our goodies. Then at least I know what ingredients are going into it. But when you still have kids at home it is hard not to buy them the pop and snacks they want for themselves and their friends:)
away from farming for a sec
I think we (people generally) ARE eating much more... Portion sizes in the US always seemed massive to us in th UK, but coming back from Singapore I've now found that portion sizes here are massive, and if you go out and you pay for that portion most people will feel obliged to finish it, which eventually makes you get used to bigger portions.
The other problem with the processed foods is that they are cheap. I agree that fresh fruit and veg are often cheap, especially local fruit, but so few people seem to know how to cook properly these days that they hardly know what to do with them, or don't have the time. Other parts of a 'natural' meal are more expensive, especially if you care about what you eat. Picking out organic or free range or non-GM type foods in a supermarket will often double the bill, and most people will probably waste half of that anyway. Why waste the money when they can have frozen meals with all the components ready to go in a few minutes.
there are many aspects to why we're getting bigger, and it's all wrapped up with more people working, more materialistic society, less time, people not having the skills... all these things that we grumble about, and ask ourselves what the world is coming to.
DD's teacher (first day back today) checked through all the kids' lunches, and DD's was the first which didn't contain pure junk food (ie. chocolate or crisps) - no mean feat for a child who doesn't like fruit at all, and isn't keen on many portable veg. There were only 3 kids in her class of 30. On the up-side, the school's trying - only healthy snacks are allowed at morning break, and only 3 kids out of 500+ defied that on the first day. Another Catch-22, because if we don't teach the next generation how to eat properly they will just get increasingly overweight and unhealthy, but who can teach them when our own generation doesn't know how to eat properly. I seem to recall my generation being the one where mothers started to go out to work more and more, so they cooked less and less, and those latckey kids are today's parents who had nobody to learn parenting or homemaking skills from. My mother didn't work, so I think that's probably what makes me stand out as an 'odd' parent compared to many I meet.
In the past when money was tight people ate less. Now they eat as much, but the quality is lower.
The whole farm subsidy situation is a sore point here, I remember from years back, because of the European Union subsidies. To be honest though, I can see what Jenny says about the costs being astronomical, and the income from many of those items is tiny in comparison. If veggies are cheap, think how little farmers must get for them. I really don't know how Jenny and others manage to farm at all in such difficult conditions with so little rain. I wish that maybe there was a points system which would reward more ethical approaches, not just bigger businesses. If there were incentives for more organic efforts then I am sure more farmers would feel able to do something in that direction without losing all chance of any profit. There's not much point jumping n the organic bandwagon if it bankrupts you.
lots of root causes for obesity, so it needs to be tackled on many fronts. The problems lie with people whose earlier generations were a more reasonable weight, but whose unhealthy lifestyle is entirely to blame for their current problems. That isn't the case for everyone of course. I used to think DH needed desperately to lose weight, but when I see him in the British context instead of a Singapore context he looks positively slim. Australians are joining in too - there were many on my recent flight who were absolutely massive. I can't imagine how they survive long-haul flights in economy seats.
now I'm starting to rant. But there really are so many aspects to the problem that it would be easy to just bang on about it for hours.
Kerri.
Bact to the obesity thing
I know it is said that obesity is now an epidemic. But not everyone is obese. I know I'm not the healthiest eater in the world. I don't have my 5 servings of fruits and vegetables, some days I don't even get one. And water, well, I probably drink way to many sodas (2 or 3 a day most of the time) and sometimes skip a few days of water. But I'm healthy as can be and the only fat on me is the little bit around my middle from having 4 children. I'm still a size 7, and that ain't too bad.
Choices are made by each person what they eat. Obesity isn't a problem in my household (yes, DH is slightly overweight, but nowhere near obese). I am hardly one to cook from scratch. I love Hamburger Helper, I use whole milk and butter in everything. I used lots of processed foods (that is, I don't make my noodles from scratch, nor my speghetti sauce, for examples).
Processed crap, as Lynn put it, shouldn't be banned because it affects some people worse than others. People just need to make better choices if they have problems with these things. Skip the junk food aisle. Don't buy cookies and chips when you are out. Bring healthy choices with you if you must. We all must take responsibility for our own choices, not blame the food makers for what is out there.
Issue of access
Another factor that is often overlooked is access to healthier food choices. A study done in Michigan and another done in California showed that a substantial number of low income families do the bulk of their food shopping at convenience stores. They didn't live near a supermarket and didn't have a car to drive to one. So their choices were to lug the kids onto the bus (if they had access to public transportation) to get to store and then lug the kids and the groceries back on the bus or shop at the corner 7-11.
The CA study was especially depressing, because a lot of the families in the study were migrant farm workers. So these parents are spending all day picking produce for you and me, but then don't have easy access to this same produce for their families.
In response, a number of states now allow WIC monies to be used at farmers' markets and some communities organize farmers' markets near the offices where food assistance is distributed. It's a start.
subsidies and obsity argument doesn't apply to hay, does it?
"The over-production of oil, fat and sugar, largely due to government subsidies to protect farm industry revenues, has contributed over decades to the health crisis we have today."
Hay is not an oil, fat, or sugar crop, at least not to my knowledge. Your type of farm isn't one of the ones under discussion. Corn farmers, sugar beet farmers, yes. But not cattle and hay.
I'm not agreeing with the article above in terms of farm subsidies supporting obesity out of hand. I don't know enough about the subject to just nod and say yes. But I do know that the way our food is produced and processed is making us sick.
Our soils now lack the vital nutrients they once had because of chemical fertilizers and all the "-cides" dumped on them for decades, so our food has fewer nutrients. This is not controversial, dozens of different publications have been saying this for years.
The way our food is irradiated, pasturized, homogenized, processed, or otherwise de-natured in order to last longer during transport or to give a longer life on a shelf in a box removes what nutritional content the food might have once possessed. And don't think that fortifying or enriching the products after they've been denatured (ruined) by processing mitigates this, you've removed fourty or fifty beneficial, naturally occuring nutrients and are replacing them with five to ten artificially produced ones. And, I must add here, many of the Vitamin Bs and Vitamin D that are used to "enrich" come from potato, something that DD is intolerant of, so basically, if it's not on the outside edges of a grocery store, we can't eat it, they put potato is just about everything. If you're intolerant to corn, you're in the same boat.
Our farmers should get paid the true value of their crop, consumers should pay the true value of the meat, dairy, and produce that they consume, and the whole system should not have to be propped up with subsidies.
I was living in the middle of dairy farm central during the small family farm crisis of the 80's and remember the first Farm Aid concert, may God bless Willie Nelson. Family farms cannot compete fairly with the huge agribusiness enterprises. Family farms are on incredibly fragile footing. I'm not saying stop subsidies, I'm saying, why should huge agribusinesses/conglomerates get subsidies?
"When farm subsidies began during the New Deal, they were intended to help the impoverished small farmer. But because they were pegged to total marketings and total acreage rather than to personal income, they wound up lining the pockets of the wealthy. If farm subsidies are continued -- as they should be in order to stabilize farm income -- they ought to be strongly weighted in favor of smallness." from The Case for Redistribution
Anhata
www.familynaturally.com
Your Family's General Store, Naturally
One thing that struck me about this on re-reading
...is that you're describing a DEEPLY dysfunctional agricultural system. The system you're describing sounds like it's on the verge of collapse. How can that be? People need to eat. Why is it like this? How can we change that?
And I don't blame subsidies for obesity as much as I blame over-processed food and the marketing that sells it. The main take-away from that conference is what a lot of us already know: We're not really eating that much more; the food we're eating is of much lower quality.
Lynn Siprelle, Editor
Perhaps there's a way
...to see that operations like yours get funding while Archers-Daniels-Midland does not?
Lynn Siprelle, Editor
I sure did!
That was an EXCELLENT post.
Just a thought: Is the price you get for your hay artificially low? How is it that you are keeping the price so low while the cost of producing it is going up up and away?
I don't believe in banning
That would be the nanny state, and I do hate the nanny state.
I bring up processed crap in hopes of making people really take a look at what they eat; there are a lot of folks who just don't think about what goes in their mouths, or don't really know that the alternatives are out there and not impossible to deal with. I think of Honey when she first came here; she could barely cook and look at her now!
I wish I had your genes, Jenny, you've always struck me as an extremely vigorous person. But I don't.
Lynn Siprelle, Editor
normal weight does not equal good health
Not referring to you, specifically, Jennye, or your family, but just because someone is not overweight does not mean that their diet is healthy. Two people could eat the same diet and one could be height/weight proportionate and the other overweight because of the difference in genetics and how phyically active they are.
My main objection (though I have many) to junk food is the chemicals that are in in them. Our bodies are not designed to process and eliminate these wastes. The chemicals that are added are to enhance flavor, make the food easier to process, to make the product "stable" so it can sit in a box on the shelf, or so that it looks pretty. None of those chemicals are nutrients, none of them contribute to health, most of them interfere with our bodies natural functions, and many of them we cannot properly eliminate. They stay in our bodies and slowly make us sick.
Just because junk food doesn't make some people fat doesn't mean the food is healthy, it means that some people have an excellent metabolism or are extremely physically active. They wouldn't be fat no matter what diet they ate.
I know from experience and from the experience of others that when someone stops eating junk food completely for a month and only eats "healthy" food (giving the body a chance to detox a little and experience true nutrition) a return to fast food/junk food makes them physically ill. Because the food isn't healthy.
Because of my and my family's health problems, my focus is on what will make us healthier. If you had a child with Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis who was intolerant to potatoes and the food additives derived from potato (almost all of them are) you would change every last thing in your kitchen and your cooking to make sure that your child gets healthy and stays that way. There's nothing you wouldn't do for the health of your children, including changing everything you do in the supermarket and kitchen, not matter how inconvienient and excruciating the change is (and it is, very). Because of the food situation with my DD i've discovered that we are all healthier and get sick less often on our junk food-free diet. We used to go to the Dr. once a month, either for me or for DD. Since we made the change I haven't been to the Dr. (for an illness) in over a year. I don't get sinus infections anymore. At all. It's almost weird. DD doesn't get ear infections anymore either and both of us have fewer colds.
My point, Jennye is this, you're a busy woman with four kids and a ranch and farm to run. You're going to make choices in the grocery store and in the kitchen that make your life easier. Everyone does. Until one of is gets it beaten into our brain thorough dire necessity that all those foods that make our life easier are making us sick and our doctors rich. We just may not find out that it has until we're thirty with a sick child or until we're fourty with colon cancer or until we're fifty and on dialysis.
I ate food from boxes and foil-lined bags, I ate fast food and junk food, I ate everything that the average American eats. Up until it made me too sick to continue and it made my daughter sick too.
None of us are willing to change what we're doing as long as it appears to be working for us. No matter what damage it's doing to us in the meantime.
May you and yours have the constutition like a rock and never get sick from the crap they put in our food.
I and my DD do not have such luck.
For us it's not a matter of simply "choosing" whether we eat healty or not. I don't have a true choice in the matter anymore. If you ever had to feed your family exclusively from "the outside edges" of a grocery store--don't go down any of the aisles for anything--you'd be mad at the food makers, too.
Anhata
www.familynaturally.com
Your Family's General Store, Naturally
I think this is the #1 biggest problem
The fact that poverty now produces obesity. Farm subsidies are part of it (if we need them, why not subsidize a bigger variety of healthy crops such as fruit orchards?), the over-manufacturing of convenience foods are part of it, but the biggest problem IMO is the setup of our cities. As Angelb pointed out, many poor people in cities have no way of getting fruits and vegetables, and poorer sections of cities are also inadequately policed so that the people who live there can't go out for daily walks for fear of being caught in the crossfire of a gunfight. All sections of society are affected by the obesity epidemic, but the poor most of all because of those factors; if I were in charge of a public health agency, that is the first place I would start to change things.
In some ways, this IS
In some ways, this IS dysfunctional! The costs of machinery has greatly increased, but the cost of the product has not. It's the cost of technology.
Look at it this way. The cost of vehicles. In 1985, a brand new Ford pickup, F250, 4x4 Supercab with all bells and whistles cost $14,000. Today, that same truck (with bells and whistles) will cost $45,000. What is different? Computers, chips, technology. But the truck is still needed to work out of, so we must buy it. Not an option not to have it.
With that in mind, think about minimum wage. In 1991, minimum wage was $4.25/hour. Today, it's $5.15 per hour.
See, the cost of buying a car versus the wage made aren't equal, are they? It's the same way with farming. The cost of the machinery has skyrocketed, along with fuel, while the cost of the product, still about the same.
Isn't it the same way with the housing market in California? How is it that a family can bring home nearly $100,000 per year or more but still can't afford to buy a decent home? In fact, that is one of the reasons why New Mexico has so many dairies now. Almost all the dairymen I know came here to escape California. It's cheaper to have a dairy here. They come and can build a huge house (by New Mexico standards), and have a 5,000 cow dairy and still be rolling in money.
Apparently, I don't know much about these coorperate farms that you refer to. If you define a coorperate farm as just having that in the name, then many of those farms ARE family run. They are just bigger than what I run. They have more hired hands, more machinery. Are some a coop of local farms or dairies? When you see a Mid-America sign on a dairy here, it doesn't mean that all the dairies are owned by Mid-America. It means that they all are part of a deal that sends their milk to a Mid-America plant to be processed. They don't sell their milk to the open market. They sell it ahead of time TO this particular plant on a contract at the market price.
As a matter of fact, my father-in-law is head of a cooperation. His ranch is a cooperation on paper. He and his wife are the only employees, and he is the president, she the secretary. It's still a cooperation.
For some farm products that are grown, it works the same way. Wheat is harvested in June and is usually hauled to the local grain elevator where it is bought at the market price.
But in the case of my own farm, we have our product ready to sell ahead of time, then find a buyer. This year, we already have a verbal contract with a buyer, but no price has been set yet.
You ask how can we change that? Isn't it the same way with our Constitution? Many feel that it is outdated, that it doesn't fit our society today. How about the definition of a marriage you were speaking of not too long ago? Farming is the same as it has always been, just outdated now? Farm subsidies came into being mostly during the depression, as part of the ABC programs FDR started. They were put in to help keep the farmer in business and are still there for the same reason.
But I don't begrudge a cooperation the same assistance. Assistance is based not on amount of income, but on amount of land and the type of crop grown and on disaster funds, and all based on the county average of the particular crop. To get disaster funds, they have to sign up by a certain date and prove that the crop WAS planted. And hey, if they lost their crop in the same drought or hailstorm that I did, then they should be entitled to the same money that I am. A cooperation is selling their crop for the same price as me. They are just bigger landwise. Families still work for them to plant and harvest one way or another. Just like families still work at Walmart. It puts the food on the table. It isn't done by computers or all by itself. SOMEONE still had to do it with alot of manual labor if only to drive the tractor, and that someone still has to get paid. I don't mind subsidies going to these big farms, little people work for them, too. And the big farmer was once a little guy, too. He just worked hard and got big. Just like Walt Disney was just a cartoonist once. And Wendy's and McDonalds was just a single restaurant once. And Walmart was once a small grocery store.
Who knows, maybe I'll have many prosperous years and make some good finacial decisions and my farm will get big and people will hate me for being a cooperation. LOL!
I not only grow hay, but
I not only grow hay, but wheat as well. Sometimes we harvest the wheat as hay, but sometimes for grain.
Corn is not only grown for oil, it's grown for cows to eat as insilage. And I know many who grow corn both ways.
I also put some -cides on our crops. Here in the desert when you are trying to grow things with little rain and little or no irrigation, you have to do all you can for yields. And all manure will do is give you more weeds. Believe me. And when you get the weeds in because you fertilized naturally with manure, you are still going to have to spray the weeds with some herbecide. And when the aphids take over a field of alfalfa, you are still going to have to spray a pestacide. Then you need more acres to make a profit.
Just some more info for you. Farming is a frickin' catch 22, that is for sure!
Prices are low because the
Prices are low because the dairies will just buy the hay from someone else around here. Our neighbors. Local neighbors, or neighboring states.
There are two reasons we think we can go up on our prices a little this year. One is because we have worked for years to build a good relationship with the dairy we sell to now. He owns two dairies that are 5,000 cows each, plus he also owns a feedlot. We sell him good hay with few weeds at a reasonable price (at a small discount so that he will buy every bale of it) and haul it to him ourself, and he pays promptly. It's a relationship built on trust. We hope he will understand that with fuel prices these days, we will HAVE to charge more.
The other reason is that Colorado had a freeze in late spring/early summer. Bad for them. Good for us. That freeze meant that their alfalfa hay was killed. See, alfalfa is planted once every 5-8 years. It comes back every year. It goes dormant in the fall, comes back in the spring. It came back in the spring and bam, unexpected freeze killed it all! No hay coming from that area, they had to plow and replant. Now, we don't grow alfalfa anymore. It takes a good deal of water, and we don't have it anymore. At least, not enough water to make it profitable to grow it. Alfalfa has a much higher nutrient count than plain ol' Haygrazer (what we have). Cows produce more milk on alfalfa. So it's more desirable and they will pay more to have it shipped in than buying local haygrazer. Oh, but there IS NO alfalfa coming in this year! So they will HAVE to settle for our haygrazer.
So it all comes down to supply and demand. Supply is lower this year, demand for any kind of hay is higher. But they are hopefully going to realize that they will have to pay more. Simple economics (glad I paid some attention to that class in college! LOL!).
JJ, you may find some info on my family website interesting. Mind you, it's out of date. I REALLY need to update this part of my site. But you may find some of the info and especially the pictures interesting. Some of the machinery we have to use, for one. Maybe I can find some time to update it in the next week or so. But here it is:
http://www.jandjessary.com/farm
Last time I updated it, I only had two children. LOL! There are four of them now, they greatly outnumber me. LOL! Our farm operation has changed since I did those pages. Most of the info is about alfalfa. But cutting and baling haygrazer is much the same.
I object to the chemicals, too
My son is particularly sensitive to artificial flavorings and colorings. For us, it's quite easy to shop around the edges of the supermarket. As a family, we make good choices. The problems arose in the school setting. From kindergarten through 2nd grade, the children had rotating class snack duties. It took me a while to realize that most of the families had some pretty bizarre notions as to what constituted a healthy snack - Cheetos were a really popular choice.
All the additives were literally toxic in my son's tiny little body, and he would literally bounce off the walls. Then I'd get summoned to the principal's office to deal with the problem that they created by feeding that crap to my son. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is reason #33454 for deciding to homeschool!
It isn't always a matter of individual choice. At the age of five, my son had no idea that Cheetos were bad for him. It wasn't his choice to make, but it was foisted upon him by a culture of junk food junkies and ignorant and/or spineless educators.
I've also noticed a difference between regular and organic milk in terms of their effects on my son. I am happy to pay more than double the price for organic milk because it doesn't trigger meltdowns or shutdowns. It tastes better, too. Furthermore, I object to the practice of using rGBH in our dairy industry. It has been banned in Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and Europe.
so corporate welfare is OK but welfare for poor folk isn't?
Here is a case made for why subsidies to huge agribusinesses are hurting taxpayers and damaging the economy: Archer Daniels Midland: A Case Study in Corporate Welfare. And it's published online here by the CATO Institue, no less. Da-aym.
[I should mention that the title of this post is my opinon, not relating to linked article above. CATO is against welfare to poor people AND to businesses, I am against subsidies, or welfare, given to for-profit companies, pork-barrel projects in other words. Unlike the CATO institute I do believe that people need a saftey net to keep out of desperate poverty.]
Anhata
www.familynaturally.com
Your Family's General Store, Naturally
Composted manure
Composting manure kills the weed seeds. Composting also kills parasites, pathogens, fly eggs and larvae, and reduces odors. I've used composted horse manure on my garden--no weeds, no stink. If you produce more composted manure than you can use, you can sell the extra to landscaping companies, nurseries, or to other farmers.
I bought two "yards" for around $90 two years ago. The guy who operates the outfit says he sells to the botanical gardens around here. We've got lots of those.
There are organically-accepted pesticides for infestations: Insecticidal soaps, horticultural oils, and botanical insecticides like pyrethrum (PyGanic®), neem (Neemix®), sabadilla (Red Devil Dust®, Natural Guard®, Veratran D®), and Ryania. Though if you're a certified organic farmer, you should check with your certifier first to see which ones are acceptable.
I grew up in farming communities in the midwest and I live in the Pacific Northwest surrounded by farms, orchards, and dairies. My friend's families were dairy farmers, alfalfa farmers, hay farmers. I'm not a farmer, but I'm not ignorant about farming.
Anhata
www.familynaturally.com
Your Family's General Store, Naturally
There is more manure
There is more manure produced here than can be composted. What I mean is, most manure is produced by the dairies. So, there are 60+ dairies in the area at about 5,000 cows per dairy. That's alot of #$%&! LOL! Dairymen don't have time to worry about the time to compost it. They want their manure out NOW.
Just to throw a couple more numbers out there, personal ones.
I farm 1,200 acres. Didn't know if I had mentioned that before. I also ranch an additional 1,200 acres. So my husband and I alone operate 2,400 acres. Add my FIL into the mix, he ranches 5,800 acres, farms 240 acres (he is more or less retired, too). 2 yards sure won't go far here, I would hate to think of what it would cost for us to buy composted manure to spread on 1,200 acres. Yikes!! It would take years of crops to justify the cost of that, and by the time it did, it would be time to do it all over again!
I have no plans to farm organically. Sorry. We don't have the time or the money to worry about $#@# like that. Not to mention the government being more in our business. Nope. I don't think so.
Anhata, I never said you were ignorant about farming. But you will probably never be in my shoes (or boots! LOL!). This topic will have to be something that you and I (and Lynn) will probably always disagree on. Also, farming here in the desert is MUCH different than farming in the midwest or where ya'll live. I don't doubt you know something about farming in those places, but it's different here.
And you know what. Fine, take away the subsidies from both agribusiness and family farms. Just as long as the prices on my crops go up, that's fine with me. I'm not for welfare for the farmers either. I'm a Republican, after all. Big Business, big military, small government. But if it is the only way we can farm, then I guess I'll take it. I sure am not going to move to the city and get a "real" job. I pray I will always live where I can piss off my porch if I so desire (ok, my husband and my sons can piss off the porch, I don't have the equipment. hehehe). And where I can scream til my hearts content and not have anyone but the cows and horses hear me.
FWIW, my DH is currently taking an EMT course at the community college. He is currently thinking about trying to get hired on at the fire dept. in town. Not for the money. But because he enjoys fighting fires and driving big trucks with sirens, and for the medical insurance and retirement plan. The latter two are a couple of disadvantages to farming. We have neither. And working 24 on/48 off, we can still farm.
Oh, yeah. This blog was about something else, wasn't it? LOL! Ok, so I guess what I was REALLY wanting to say in the beginning was, family farms ARE getting the subsidies, it's not all going to big cooperate farms.
And now, I'm off to frost cupcakes to contribute to the obesity of the children in our preschool. It's my son's 4th birthday and I have snack duty! hehehe! (smile guys! that was a joke! about the obesity. I am making cupcakes. Triple Chocolate Fudge ones with Chocolate Chip frosting!! Yummy!)
What do the manure removers do with the stuff?
Composting manure on a large scale can be done in windrows with two or three pieces of equipement on a couple of acres.
I would LOVE to move out onto some acerage and compost horse and cow manure from farms. Composed manure is one of the best organic fertilizers you can possible have.
I wasn't suggesting that you become a certified organic farmer. I was just pointing out that chemical "-cides" are one option, organically-compatible ones are another option.
Back to subsidies:
But to cut the help off is just cutting the throats of the family farmers. And I don't know a single farmer that doesn't get some sort of assistance in the form of subsidies.
Subsidies are what KEEPS the family farms in business. If it weren't for programs like EQIP, NAP, CRP, and others, there would be NO family farms or ranches.
Now, I don't live off the gov't subsidies. But without them, the family farms would die. And you would be paying an arm and a leg for your food when it has to be shipped in from other countries.
...
Fine, take away the subsidies from both agribusiness and family farms. Just as long as the prices on my crops go up, that's fine with me. I'm not for welfare for the farmers either.
The subsidy program goes you go, that's what you said. As soon as I point out that it's basically welfare for farmers you back off and say, OK, take it away? How does that work?
And the smaller government you want would not only not give you subsidies, it would not pay for the fire damage the the big military caused.
Anhata
www.familynaturally.com
Your Family's General Store, Naturally
Now you just sound like you
Now you just sound like you are trying to pick a fight with me, and I'm getting pissed.
Can you say sarcasm?
You know what. Screw it. I really don't give a flying fart anymore. I don't have time for this anymore, I got too much crap going on in my own life right now.
I can't read the minds of the dairymen on why they don't compost the manure. Probably because they don't have time as well.
Sorry, but I'm tired, I've had a really crappy day, I hate friggin' Dr. Sears and the whole attachment parenting bull crap (WHOLE other topic. I HATE AP and I REALLY HATE Dr. figgin' Sears!!!), had a huge blowup with my husband about who does what around here, and I don't want to try to defend myself anymore with anyone. I have left this conversation. I think I'll just stick to flybabies if I even have time to come back to the computer in this lifetime.
Apologies, Jennye
Though you've left the conversation and so won't see this, I must sincerely apologize. In all honesty, I was not trying to pick a fight with you, I thought I was having a lively conversation. I am very sorry that I have mad you so angry, I didn't want to.
I enjoy talking to people with different viewpoints than my own which is why I've been responding to your posts. Nothing I've said here was meant in any way to critisize you in any way shape or form. You might not beleive me but I admire you immensely. I cannot do in three days what you do in one.
Actually, I have been fascinated by your perspective on family farming and my inner pioneer lusts after the kind of work you do...running a home, family, ranch, and farm.
I'm sorry you've had a rough day, I hope your DH realizes what an amazing woman he's married to and gives you a dozen roses and a foot rub. Or a dinner at Chili's, or whatever your favorite thing is.
If any of my posts seemed to you to be critisizing you or making you feel like you had to defend yourself, that was not where I was coming from or meant to do. No one has the right to do that to someone else, even if you think you've "been in their shoes."
Though we both post here, we don't really know each other very well and you couldn't know that I would never intentionally pick a fight or try to piss someone off. If you meant to be sarcastic, I didn't catch it and misunderstood the point of your post.
I'm not sorry for what I've said on this thread, but I'm sorry that it made you angry.
Anhata
www.familynaturally.com
Your Family's General Store, Naturally
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