Polygamy: A Valid Choice?

Submitted by Lynn on Tue, 08/22/2006 - 8:26am.

Over the weekend, a group of Utah teenagers held a pro-polygamy rally:

"Because of our beliefs, many of our people have been incarcerated and had their basic human rights stripped of them, namely life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," said a 19-year-old identified only as Tyler. "I didn't come here today to ask for your permission to live my beliefs. I shouldn't have to."

Polygamy is banned in the Utah Constitution and is a felony offense. The rally was unusual because those who practice polygamy typically try to live under the radar.

It drew about 250 supporters to City Hall, said Mary Batchelor, co-founder of Principle Voices of Polygamy, which helped organize the event.

Salon's comment today:

Polygamy's image moved further along on its path to refurbishment ... The AP made sure to note that the crowd was dressed mostly in flip-flops and blue jeans, that they spoke on cellphones and played loud music, and that many of them stressed that their home lives had not included "abuse, neglect [or] forced marriages."

My comment:
Why should anyone care how anyone else lives his or her personal life, especially if it's a religious choice? I understand Utah's history and why polygamy is a felony there; it's the only way they could get into the United States in the 19th Century. But this is the 21st Century.

Increasingly I am coming to believe that the government should not be in the marriage business. If people want to be recognized in a religious partnership in whatever configuration among consenting adults, it's their business and their religion's business. If people want to be recognized in a secular partnership, then it's the state's business. But it should not be called marriage, and I'm increasingly beginning to believe that civil partnerships should not have any special benefits attached to them. It's not fair and it's not right, and I say this as a legally married woman.

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LoisDenominator's picture

polygamy

Submitted by LoisDenominator on Tue, 08/22/2006 - 9:41pm.

I live in Arizona. There is a town that practices polygamy in very northern Arizona.

They are not legally married to the second, third, fourth, etc wives. They are "spiritual marriages." So the extra wives are not legally married and receive welfare benefits for their children. So they are exercising their religious beliefs at the expense of taxpayers.

Many of these extra wives are young teenagers (as young as 13 or 14) who have no say in whether they marry 40 year-old men. They are given as wives, regardless of their wishes.

Lynn's picture

I wouldn't call a 14-year-old a consenting adult

Submitted by Lynn on Tue, 08/22/2006 - 10:11pm.

Would you? Smiling And two thoughts: If the government got out of the marriage business, where would that put welfare checks for those families? Secondly, hard cases don't make good law; for every example like the ones you cite, I wonder how many more responsible families there are?

Lynn Siprelle, Editor

Sparrow's picture

Am I understanding right?

Submitted by Sparrow on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 8:42am.

Just for clarification Lynn, are you saying the govenment shouldn't recognize any relationship at all as a "marriage," but instead as a secular partnership (if at all?)

That probably would clear up some of the difficulties people have in wanting to be fair to nontraditional partnerships in the legal realm without (necessarily) extending religious recognition of them. Still, I'm not sure how I'd feel if my marriage was changed from a "marriage" to a "civil partnership" in the eyes of the law. Maybe it'd just take some getting used to, I don't know.


Lynn's picture

Yes

Submitted by Lynn on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 8:57am.

In France, you have to "get married" twice--once at the city hall, and once in church if you choose to. The first is the civil partnership; the second is the religious component, if that matters to you. Here, you can just do the religious ceremony and that's enough.

This is an instance where the state is interfering with the church, not the other way around for once. The state needs to get out of the marriage business. "Marriage" is a religious concept and should be left to religion. If people want a state-recognized partnership--with whomever and however many whomevers as long as they're consenting adult humans (animals cannot consent so don't start with me, y'all)--that should be called something other than marriage. And benefits, if any, should go to the state-recognized partnerships.

Lynn Siprelle, Editor

Kay W's picture

Interesting topic

Submitted by Kay W on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 10:48am.

In most jurisdictions, marriage is pretty easy to get into. [Just a side note: in Texas, in fact, the state recognizes common law or "informal" marriages(along with 14 or 15 other states). You don't need a license or a ceremony... it won't be registered in the state's vital statistics registry or anything, but you are still very much married if you satisfy the three simple elements in the law.] The difficult thing is getting OUT of that marriage. Once you file for divorce, the state (via the family court system) starts to micro-manage everything in that failed partnership: property (real and personal), child custody, child visitation, child support.

How do you dissolve a marriage or civil union with three people involved? What about six? What if only one person wants out and the others want to carry on? Do non-biological parents have visitation rights to children who were born during the union but are not actually their children? FWIW, I do see some wisdom in limiting civil unions to two adults.

Andrea's picture

tough issues

Submitted by Andrea on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 2:34pm.

These are tough issues for sure.

I read a book a few years back "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer. Very good commentary on the subject, I thought.

I understand Lynn's viewpoint and the differentiation b/t secular partnerships and religious marriages. The part I can't get past is the age of some of these girls - they are children and are entering into a lifestyle before they are ready to and before they are able to make their own independent, informed decisions to do so. How do we differentiate this from statutory rape? At what age should young women able to choose this lifestyle? That is the part I struggle with - girls who have grown up in this fashion and don't understand their options and aren't offered alternatives. Does the government - the law - society - whatever - have any part in regulating this or discouraging this? I don't know. I just struggle with that part of it.

Becky's picture

underage

Submitted by Becky on Sat, 08/26/2006 - 7:39am.

Statutory rape laws would, in Lynn's scenario, continue to apply in the normal way regardless of polygamy vs. monogamy.

Lynn's picture

I'm talking about consenting adults

Submitted by Lynn on Sat, 08/26/2006 - 9:43am.

Yes, thanks, Becky, as far as I'm concerned statutory rape laws would still be on the books. Some of the "women" entering into these relationships in the fundamentalist Mormon enclaves are far too young to be marrying ANYONE, let alone a guy with three other wives. No argument there.

Those girls might have a better go of it--MIGHT, I say--if polyamorous marriages were decriminalized. There'd be no reason to hide out in the wilds. More families might come in from the desert. The girls themselves would see women and girls making other choices for themselves.

And the argument that poly needs to stay criminalized because of underage "marriages"--well, that happens in the "mono" community too, it just stays out of sight and doesn't call itself "marriage":

Males involved in teen childbearing are frequently not teenagers themselves. Adult men fathered over 50% of babies born to girls 15-17 years old.

This is why we have statutory rape laws on the books, and I heartily advocate enforcing them.

Lynn Siprelle, Editor

Leigh-Ann@www.thenewhomemaker.com's picture

I also wanted to comment on

Submitted by Leigh-Ann@www.t... on Sat, 08/26/2006 - 11:09pm.

I also wanted to comment on the idea that polygamous communities wouldn't have to exist in isolation if polygamy was legal. Again, I've only read one book on the subject, but it was pretty clear that the leaders of the fundamentalist communities want to keep their followers isolated so they aren't exposed to "outside ideas". They aren't allowed to watch television, read magazines, go to public schools, etc. Well, I take that back -- many of the kids do go to a "public school", but all the teachers are fundamentalists, as are all the members of the school board, so anything they learn is pre-screened.

Lynn's picture

hence the "might"

Submitted by Lynn on Sun, 08/27/2006 - 10:40am.

But it would be one less reason the cult leaders (and face it, these are cults) could give to hide out.

Lynn Siprelle, Editor

Andrea's picture

OK, I see. I should've

Submitted by Andrea on Sat, 08/26/2006 - 1:34pm.

OK, I see. I should've figured as much. I guess I was just thinking back to families described in the book I mentioned were many of the wives were so young.

Leigh-Ann@www.thenewhomemaker.com's picture

torn

Submitted by Leigh-Ann@www.t... on Sat, 08/26/2006 - 11:03pm.

As a lesbian, I feel like I should support the "any relationship between consenting adults" argument, but I also read "Under the Banner of Heaven" and it really disturbed me. The Mormon Fundamentalist communities in that book didn't just practise plural marriage -- they were also terribly misogynistic. The women had no education, no exposure to the outside world, and no opportuntities besides marriage, and they didn't seem to even have choices about who they married. Even if the women in plural marriages are of the "age of consent", I don't think there can be any true "consent" in those situations, at least, not informed consent.

JJ's picture

of topical note

Submitted by JJ on Tue, 08/29/2006 - 10:42am.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/29/polygamist.arrest.ap/index.html

Warren Jeffs was arrested today after a traffic stop. He isn't one of the fellas from Big Love. This guy sets up 12 year olds with 60 and 70 year olds, and saves the "best" girls for himself and his inner cadre.

JJ's picture

yet another note about Polygamy

Submitted by JJ on Fri, 09/01/2006 - 10:41am.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/01/jeffs.towns.ap/index.html

CNN has been hitting this subject hard. Must be ratings week, or somethin.

from the article:

"It's been my experience down there that the women are as committed as the men, sometimes more so," he said. "(Outsiders) think it's about sex and power and domination, but it's about a lot of other things. This is what they were raised in and it's multigenerational. It's their culture." -- Ken Driggs, Atlanta Defense Attorney.

Anhata's picture

That is a particularly nasty example of a cult

Submitted by Anhata on Tue, 08/29/2006 - 2:15pm.

I can't help but think that something is very very wrong with our law and order system that a man like that could be marrying underaged girls for four years before being caught. What's going on?

Anhata
www.familynaturally.com
Your Family's General Store, Naturally

JJ's picture

He's been steadily working his way up

Submitted by JJ on Wed, 08/30/2006 - 9:59am.

the FBI's 10 most wanted for years now.

Honestly, I think they were trying to catch him, but we have only 700k law enforcement officers nationwide, and they have to cover 372million people, and 3.5 million square miles. Lots of places to hide.

Rudolph, the bomber, hid out 10 miles from his home, and it took years to find him, too.

Simple truth is that our country is sooooo big, people have many places to hide, even moreso if they are taken in and given assistance in doing the same. The history of bounty hunting illustrates this quite clearly...Early law enforcement realized that they were powerless to bring everyone in, and so the bail bondsman/bounty hunting tradition was started.

Now, this guy can get put away, and that will solve the immediate problem, but there will be more like him. The tighter we squeeze folks of exclusionist nature the more secluded they become, and the more of a danger they become as well.

Guest's picture

Govt. needs to put an end to Polygamy

Submitted by Guest (not verified) on Wed, 05/28/2008 - 1:15pm.

The govt. has allowed polygamy to go on for too long. It is against the law!!! Let's urge the govt. to uphold all laws and not pick and choose which ones are considered important!!! Taxpayer dollars are supporting this gross, disgusting lifestyle. . . these people are truly sick!!! It's a good thing I'm not in charge, I have some ideas of what I would do with those men "marrying" underage girls. . .you don't even want to know (people would call me barbaric, ironically).

Why has this been allowed to go on and on??? Why are decent people unwillingly supporting this lifestyle??? If they want to live that way, let them pack up and leave the country!!! Plenty of countries practice polygamy, let them go there!!!

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