Jamielea? Susan? Other Moms of Teens or Former Teens?

I have two about that age. . .one 14 and one 12. I think it might be considered somewhat normal behavior. They do seem to have an "angry" stage, but your concern seems to indicate you think it might be just a bit more going on, therefore I would just pay close attention to what is going on with him.

They seem to go through a period of pushing the limits. . .they are changing and may be uncomfortable with it and therefore act out because they don't know how else to deal with it.

You did right to send him to his room and your DH did right in "enforcing" your decision. Hurting others in the family isn't something you can overlook. Thats where DH's sometimes have to step in and deal with it and mom has to let them. The more they get by with it, the further they push next time. If they know there are consequences, they may think twice.

You are probably well aware of the warning signs of drug use. . .sudden change in behavior, belligerence, change of friends, etc. Pay close attention to what is going on with him.

You also might try to find out if something is going on at school. . .kids making fun, running with a bad crowd, anything out of the ordinary.

I find that my kids will spill the beans a bit easier if I talk to them alone, non accusatory, not pushy (the more you try to pick them, the more they clam up), etc. Also, if I go in about bedtime and sit and talk for a minute with the lights out it seems to loosen their tongues a bit. Simply say something like "I'm not fussing at you, but I'm wondering what were you so angry about earlier? Can you tell me?" Sometimes it works like this in a car also. . .where they can talk without having to look you in the eye.

I know some will disagree with me, but if you suspect drugs, I would not hesitate to prowl my child's room to find out. There are no "rights" as far as I'm concerned when it comes to something as detrimental to my child as drugs.

I posted my one thought on flybabies -- try to give him ideas for physically working off anger. I was a troubled teen myself -- although it came in part from being in an abusive household -- and I had lots of anger issues. Being female and terrified of my abuser, I turned it mostly inward -- cutting myself, hitting myself, etc.

So maybe it's a good thing that your DS feels safe enough to express his anger to you. He just needs to find a different way to do it that doesn't hurt anyone.

But still for me anger is sometimes physically overwhelming. It wasn't until after DD5 was born and I started good therapy, meditation, and medication that I stopped hitting myself on occasion. It's like there's this incredible pressure that you can actually feel under your skin and you've *got* to do something to release it. Regular exercise is good, but you've got to come up with some way to release that energy in the moment. Maybe your pediatrician has ideas appropriate for teens.

Now that I am finally doing a regular prayer time, I will be sure to pray for you as you deal with this. I am really pulling for your family, as I know we'll be dealing with similar issues in about 8 years!

Shaun
"If you jump off the boat, you only rock it once"

to everything Fern said. My teanagers (DS18 and DC17) are both neither born of my loin I don't advertise that DS18 isn't mine, I don't call him my "step" son. I call him my son. I hate that term, I feel like it causes seperation. I don't want him to feel like he's not just as much a part of MY family as his brother Trey is or his sister Savannah. Anyway, I've never had a problem with anger from Tony (ds18). Now DC17 is a diffrent story, his isn't as vocal as what it sounds like your DS's is but it's still there. He has some REAL issues with women, due to the way his mother was and still is. Like I said he's never "blown up" or gotten physical with me, but I see the anger there. I usually give him his space but at the same time let him know I'm here if he wants to talk. Sometimes whatever it is blows over and sometimes he seeks me out and needs to talk about it.
This is a hard age, I know with Anthony (DC17) that if I push him to tell me what's wrong he'll shut down.
Well I said all that and just really don't know that any of that will help or not. My circumstances are diffrent than yours, Anthony has reason to be angry at times. His mom really let him down, still does on at least a daily basis. She never calls to see how he is, she makes promises that her drug addiction won't "let her keep". I just hope that a stable life for the last 2 years will take him threw college and on to a better life.
Ahhhh, I always feel like I can't just answer a question with "I don't know" I have to go into this long drawn out thing that sounds like I'm trying to make it about me. That's not what I'm trying to do, honest.
I wish I had some better advice but I can't say it any better than what Fern said.
You and your family will be in my prayers.
And remember anytime you need to vent, we're all here.
Jamie Lea

witchiepoo, I just was over on the Perfectionist thread and something suddenly hit me when looking at your score of 72. Mine was 59 on that test, but I can tell you 2 years ago it would have been much higher.

From experience, I know being a perfectionist can make it hard on the rest of the family, trying to live up to our expectations. What we see as "just do it right and I won't say anything else" comes across to them as controlling and aggressive and "in their face". It sometimes brings on anger from kids because they feel nothing they do is ever "right". At least that was what was going on in my house. I noticed you said your son is a perfectionist too, so you all may be double dosing there!

What helped me was that my sister just kept insisting that I go to an Iridologist that she had been to see and was also taking some classes from. I finally gave in and went. She also did what they call (I think) muscle testing. . .letting your body tell her what it needs as far as natural remedies,etc. I would never have believed it if I hadn't experienced it. Of course everyone's needs would be different, but she
found I needed Red Chestnut, Bach drops. The effect was amazing. My stress levels dropped, my children doing things their way instead of my way seemed not to matter so much anymore, which in turn eased tensions around my house. Pretty soon, my snappiness with them was pretty much gone and even Dad was saying "Thank God for Mom's drops".

I'm not telling you this to encourage seeing an Iridologist, but rather to emphasize what a difference lowering stress levels and what kids see as unreasonable expectations can make in how we act and react with our children.

I'm also not insinuating that the problem is yours and not your sons, but rather, just giving a little food for thought. All that said, I would not let down my guard in trying figure out what else may be going on with him and dealing with it as I mentioned in my first post.

I apologize for blathering on here, but seeing the other thread just rang a bell with me due to my own experience.

Hang in there.

Jo,
My heart goes out to you. I have a friend who has 2 sons age 21 and 19. She has been a mentor to me with DS13. One thing she has stressed is the boys need to vent energy. She strongly advocated sports. Her boys were on the high school basketball and football team. We found that Tae Kwon Do was a great outlet for our DS. (lots of punching and kicking. Our do jang (studio) also did alot of teaching on respect for parents and teachers. DS spent about 1 1/2 years in Tae Kwon Do. The first year he loved going and it let him blow off alot of steam. He lost interest this year. (I think it was because of the contact phase of his training) He also plays intramural sports.

Disrespecting adults is not acceptable behavior in our home. We have found what DS values (computer, internet, video games) and it is taken away as a consequence of misbehavior. This has been an effective means of discipline for us.

I'm including a link to Dr. Phil's website. He has some sage advice with dealing with TEENS. Hope you can gain some insight on what to do.
http://www.drphil.com/advice/advice.jhtml?contentId=parenting_teens_trou...

http://www.drphil.com/advice/advice.jhtml?contentId=par_discipline_ageap...

My prayers are with you and your family.
Susan

I did go to Dr. Phil last night and a few other sites too, and got out my books again. I am also going to do a phone conference with one or two counselors and meet with one other. I think I am formulating a good plan, but DH and I need to get together on this and then talk with him about it in a calm moment.

We all could use some stress reduction therapy around here, so we may even just do something really different this weekend as a family, maybe get away for awhile. DH has also redoubled his efforts to get the room done to get DS out of his basement (dark and cold) room and into the light and warmth.

Thank you again, you wonderful people, for proving that community can exist anywhere. I feel better writing to you folks about it because I know you aren't going to judge us. I felt better as soon as I hit send on the post.
Love,
-Jo

I spent hours on Thursday and Friday talking with three different counselors, and between those sessions, the books I have, and talking with DH, I think we have a good plan. I'm posting it here in case anyone else ever has a similar problem, and I will try to remember to update you on how it works.

All three of the counselors pointed out that DS, DH, and I never sat down and discussed the changes is his life (high school) and what the new expectations would be. So that will be job one; sit down together and talk about it. (Duh)

One of the main things we will do is have each of us list our needs from this relationship, rank them, and work out a way to get everyone's needs met. For example, one of my needs might be that DS is safe. Then we talk about ways he might not be safe, and how we can address those situations. Another of my needs might be that our home is a refuge for all of us. We would then discuss why that is important and how to contribute to that goal.

The other big part of the discussion will be consequences. All three of the counselors suggested that I was being pretty harsh in the consequences for annoying behavior, which might be setting myself up for conflict and anger from DS, plus I was making it harder to have consequences that will really matter to DS for the big, scary things. Then, anytime consequenses have to be imposed, it must be in a neutral, not angry way. Consequences and limits are important, but he has to know about them ahead of time.

Another great thing that was pointed out to me is that we need to teach DS healthier ways to cope with his anger. Getting angry back at him is not helping, and as he is probably already scared by the intensity of emotion he is experiencing, our anger is making it more frightening for him. His body is in the throes of testosterone mayhem, and he is now in a situation where he is a freshman in a high school that seems to look the other way about bullying underclassmen. We need to help him find ways to release some of the anger he feels in ways that are more acceptable.

One thing DH and I talked about is loosening our never, ever resort to violence rule. DS is a black belt, and we have always told him never to hit anyone, even if they hit you first. I called DS's TKD master, and talked with him too, because I was hoping he could get DS back into TKD, which he will. He also said that DS should be able to defend himself from physical attacks, because much of his anger may be coming from feeling helpless. We have always drilled into him that violence is never an answer, but the Master thinks that because DS has been the target a lot of physical abuse he should be able to put a stop to it by using his skills to defend himself. Since the school has done nothing effective yet to stop it, I think he may be right. DS told us he hasn't responded in any way to the physical bullying because he was afraid of the consequenses at home. We will tell him to go ahead and defend himself if he needs to, as long as he is only trying to stop himself from being hurt, and isn't trying to hurt anyone else.

DS's room is in our cellar. It is dark and has concrete walls. We are building him a room upstairs, but we need to get that done faster so he has an inviting place to be when he is having a hard time being around other people.

And last, but not least, our family is in an intensly stressful period, and almost everything in DS's life is changing. He is in a new school, his body is changing rapidly, DH is becoming a business owner, I am leaving my job. We need to aknowldge the stress and work to reduce it in all of our lives.

So, hopefully this works. I'll let you know.

Thanks for making that post, witchiepoo. It gives all of us pointers and a guide to go by if/when similar things happen in our own households. Keep us up with how it goes and give us pointers along the way!

Re your DS's room. . .if it is going to be a while before it is ready, is there a way you might paint a Trompe L'oiel on one wall. . .isn't that the illusion thing? You could paint it like a wall with a large window overlooking the outdoors. Another thing that might brighten up his current space is something I saw on one of those house fixing shows on tv. They hung colored (would also work great with clear) lights that dangled from the ceiling . . .like Christmas lights strung back and forth across the ceiling, but all you noticed was a jillion tiny lights hanging overhead.

Even a couple packs of those glow in the dark stars you can buy in the toy department of stores, stuck on the ceiling with bits of tacky tape, are great for cheering up a room and taking away some of the "darkness" one would have in a cellar, especially when the lights are out. Just don't mention the toy department to the teen My niece and nephew had those on their ceilings when they were 15/16 and loved them.

A relative of mine did this-- while they were doing a similar renovation, they allowed the daughter who had the basement room to sleep on the family room couch when she wanted to, while still keeping "her space" downstairs until her upstairs room was finished. This let her wake up to sunlight but still have private space. It would be inconvenient permanently, but it would work as a stopgap.

From my limited karate experience I recall that there are ways to block and respond to attacks without causing much pain to the attacker; maybe your son should practice specifically with that in mind.

I've been thinking about you and your son, Jo, and I'm happy that you have some practical things to work with. It sounds very positive and respectful to everyone.

I'm so sorry DS is dealing with bullying at school. It sounds like you have a kid who already understands the difference between aggression and self-defense, which is really great.

Kudos to you for looking deeper and not just trying to clamp down harder. You're a great mom!

Shaun
"If you jump off the boat, you only rock it once"

DH has it almost done. It's just sheetrock and finish work left, so it will not be too long. Two weeks or so, hopefully.

He does sleep on the couch sometimes, and that does seem to help him wake up more easily.

Once he is moved upstairs, we will have a family room in the cellar. We will paint the cement walls, install more lighting, and put in a foosball table and darts and a stereo. One thing I know really bothers him is how "lame" we are in terms of things with teen appeal in our house. We don't have cable or sattellite TV, no Playstation or X-box, no pool, no pool table, and only dial-up internet. So I hope the family room will help.

He certainly knows self defense, we just have always said that if he gets in fights at school he will really be in trouble. Turn the other cheek and all that. So just the permission to stop others from hurting him would give him quite a bit of relief I hope.

Thanks for the support friends!

I have read this post devouring each and every suggestion for "those teen years"...but I giggle at the "One thing I know really bothers him is how "lame" we are in terms of things with teen appeal in our house"
My oldest was talking about the internet with us, and asked me when I got to go on alone...I told him we didn't have internet...his response..."life must have been really boring then"

AnneP.
A child enters your home and makes so much noise you can hardly stand it--then departs, leaving the house so quiet you think you'll go mad. -Dr. J.A. Holmes

The room is done, and he has moved in, and he is very happy about it. We made him paint the walls and ceiling on his own, which he wasn't happy about at the time, but now he is very proud.

We talked with him about needs and created some house rules. We are making his priviledges contingent on behavior. If he breaks rules, he gets to chose the consequence from a list (lose 15 minutes computer time, has to go to bed at 9, a $3 fine, no phone calls for the night, and so on). He sure wasn't happy about that either, but is adjusting.

One big change on the part of DH and me is that we will no longer respond to him at all unless he is speaking respectfully. When he is being miserable, we walk away after saying, "I'll listen when you are ready to speak respectfully." He must have just wanted attention, or likes winding us up, because that has been very effective.

Another thing we did was practice with him ways to cope with his stress and anger. We taught him words and phrases to use to let us know how he is feeling, and expect him to use them rather than just be miserable. We told him what we do when we are feeling unable to interact with others appropriately due to stress or anger. His plan is to go hang out in his room and listen to music to cool down. This one is taking a bit longer to settle in, but it is better.

Things are better with him at school too. He did hit the kid back, which makes me really sad that it had to get to that, but now no one has touched him in almost two weeks, when before it was a daily thing. His anger level has been much lower since that fight.

One of his needs that came out of the conversation is that he was very bored after school. He didn't play basketball, and he doesn't want to join a club, so he just came home and was bored. We made a plan where twice a week he walks over to Great Grandma's house afterschool (his idea!) and shovels her driveway, helps her do errands, and is a kind of junior handyman. He also gets to use her superfast computer and watch cable TV with her. I pick him up on my way home. This has been incredibly successful, they are both really pleased with the arrangement.

Then his old TKD instructor called and asked him to please come help teach classes. Twice a week he walks to the elementary school after school and teaches three classes. Now we are covered for 4 days a week. I don't know what will happen once baseball starts, but I'm sure we can work it out.

So, things are looking up. He still thinks the world revolves around him and he deserves everything he wants, but we're working on that too.

Peace,
-Jo