Need Advice on Dealing with Dad

JoannaC's picture
Submitted by JoannaC on Wed, 12/03/2003 - 12:08pm.

Danna's post spurred me to ask for some advice from you all too. My problem is with my own dad. Brace yourselves for a long post.

First, some history: My parents divorced when I was in college. It had been building up for some time, but my DM left when she discovered dad was a) having an affair and b) had forged her signature on a phony tax scam, leaving her fully liable for many years of unpaid taxes. Over the years, dad has betrayed almost every member of our family, although I didn't know it until I was in my early twenties. Here are a few highlights, which are only the tip of the iceberg:

- As executor of his father's estate, he stole every penny left to his mother, leaving her penniless. Under pressure from his siblings, and threats of criminal action, he paid her back over time. They have forgiven him.

- He borrowed hundreds of thousands of dollars from banks during the eighties, ostensibly for his business, and then handed over the loans to his FIL (my grandfather) to pay. My grandfather had co-signed the loans.

- To avoid collection activity from the IRS, he operated on barter agreements and other income/asset hiding schemes for many years. He also referred IRS collectors to my DM, who eventually filed for bankruptcy.

- He encouraged me to go to an expensive private college, and not to work (I had worked through high school). Then checks started bouncing, and I got a job immediately. I also decided to transfer to a public university. When I requested my transcript, a sympathetic administrator told me that my tuition hadn't been paid for a year, and they had been trying to decide what to do. My grandfather paid the tuition so I could continue with college, and I paid my own way after that. I also found out that he had "forgotten" to pay my car insurance for a year (his "gift" to me--he had the bills sent to his house), which resulted in much higher rates for the next year. I would have been happy to pay for it myself!

- My younger brother worked for 2 years to save for a car. Dad went to the bank, charmed the teller (who knew him), and drained the account.

- There are many other examples, including some more recent ones, but you get the idea. In each of these cases, he has portrayed himself as the victim, or has completely denied responsibility. In person, you would think he was the nicest, simplest, most charming person in the world.

I have limited my confrontation with him to only the incidents involving me. I have maintained a polite, but distant, relationship with him for many years.

This summer, DH, DS3, and I moved back to Texas, after an absence of 7 years. We had seen dad during holidays and visits home. After DH and I bought a house, I got a call from my realtor, who is a distant relative by marriage. Dad had called her(without my knowlege) to "thank" her for helping us. He asked how much we paid for the house, and asked to schedule a tour. When I confronted him, he repeatedly said that "he had a right to see his own daughter's house". I asked him not to get other family members involved, since his sister is ill, and his mother is quite elderly.

Well, he went straight to my aunt and grandmother, crying to them that I was denying him a relationship with his grandson, judging him, etc. He claims his inquiry was totally innocent. In their minds, he repented for stealing my grandmother's money, and he's really just a good guy who's had some trouble a time or two. I don't want to upset my aunt and grandmother, so I haven't told them the whole story. My aunt keeps telling me that I need to "rise above it", and that any parent would have made the same inquiry (she is childless). I just can't bring myself to apologize to him, as he and his wife (the affair) are demanding. I am hosting the family Christmas party, but he has refused to attend.

Because I can't justify myself to my aunt and grandmother, I keep going over everything in my mind like a broken record. If this was an isolated incident (as they see it), maybe it would be excusable. I want to get some peace on this issue. Please advise: what would you wise people do?


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studmuffin's picture

sorry hun

Submitted by studmuffin on Wed, 12/03/2003 - 1:24pm.

First off, I am sorry you’re father has put you through this. And as far as I can see, it seems like you have already risen above....congratulations because that isn’t easy. I know, I have a mother who causes such disruptions and ill feelings but is completely convinced that she has done nothing of the sort. She never thinks she does anything wrong.

Once I became a parent I couldn’t stand it anymore. There isn’t anyyyything I wouldn’t do for my girls.... and knowing this feeling first hand it makes it hurt even more realizing my own mother doesn’t feel that way about me. At first I just kept my distance... but eventually things just became so ugly that, in consideration of my girls and my husband, zero contact is what I had to do and it has been that way for almost 2 years.

This also meant loosing contact with much of my family that doesn't approve of my choice; brothers, aunts, grandma. They are all in their little dysfunctional world, and while I miss em, and still love them.... I can’t bare to be involved and participate in all the destructiveness. I grew up with that, my grandmother mean to my mother, and my mother just put up with it swearing she wouldn’t get like that... but she is that way now and expects us kids to put up with her like good children, like she did with her mother. My brothers do, but then again they’re just as dysfunctional and difficult to swallow. When I was growing up, my grandmother was the only person that made my mother cry on a regular basis and as a kid that was hard to understand. Once that started to happen to me, and my 5 yr old wanted to know why my mommy made me cry... I said the chain stops here! If I don’t talk to her she can’t make me cry. AND talking to her but trying to be strong and not cry is just toooo hard considering what gets said.

It isn’t easy, not talking, having zero contact... feeling left out of the loop.... I miss em all and honestly there was some good things that happened, but not enough to balance out the bad. On a making lemonade note, now that I’m not talking to em regularly, my mind is open to happy thoughts, I remember good times, wayyy more often then if we were talking, because when we talk and fight, that is what is on my mind.

I know this doesn’t tell you what to do, but maybe it helps to know you are not alone.... and what someone else did and what it is like.

(((HUGS))) good luck figuring this out.

when handed a basket of lemons make lemonade

Charlene

Lynn's picture

Hugs!

Submitted by Lynn on Wed, 12/03/2003 - 5:14pm.

Joanna, he has put you through enough that you are EXTREMELY justified in being suspicious of him. If it were me I wouldn't let him near me with a ten foot pole. Stick to your guns. Why on earth did he want a tour without you? What business was it of his? My parents would NEVER do something like that without letting me know, and they're ALWAYS all up in my business. Smiling Any parent would NOT have done that; any parent would have asked his daughter for the information directly rather than going behind her back to get it.

If your relatives insist, tell them you have very good reasons that are between you and your father, and that you prefer to leave the rest of the clan out of it (unlike your father). Leave it at that. If your relationships with them suffer, there's not much you can do.

But I do know this: A leopard doesn't change his spots. Sooner or later your dad will do it again and your relatives will see which one of you is the credible one. Hugs to you. This is awful.

Lynn Siprelle, Editor

jamielea's picture

More (((hugs)))

Submitted by jamielea on Wed, 12/03/2003 - 7:00pm.

Joanna,
Let me start by saying thank you for sharing, I don't have the solution, but do feel like you have been given some great advice. It's hard to do, the zero contact thing, but sometimes for the best. I have a similar situation with my mother who is an alcoholic, and very self centered. Like Charlene, I didn't realize how self centered until I had children of my own. I have yet to cut off contact with her, but pray for the strength to do just that almost daily. She (like Charlene's mom) makes me cry way too often. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to make this topic about me and my toxic relationship with my mom. Just wanted to let you know that your not alone, it helps me alot to hear Charlene's story, I guess maybe gives me strength, makes me feel like not SUCH an awful daughter. I do belive that you have to do what's right for your family. You have to take care of YOU so that your at your best for your family. I know it's hard, it just doesn't seem "normal" to cut off contact with your mom (or dad) but hey, now as a parent myself I know it's not "normal" to treat your children the way my Mom has treated me, or for your Dad to put you threw the things he's put you threw. I know I'm rambling now, just wanted you to know your not alone and you will be in my thoughts Smiling

jamielea's picture

Opps, forgot

Submitted by jamielea on Wed, 12/03/2003 - 7:04pm.

As far as Christmas, you invited him, IMO I think you've done your part. I don't think an apology is called for, he was in the wrong, not you. I say enjoy Christmas at your home, with your family, and anyone else who decides to show up Smiling

Mitchypoo's picture

actions, not words

Submitted by Mitchypoo on Thu, 12/04/2003 - 6:15am.

Joanna, I think you've been given some very sage advice and the only thing i wanted to add is that you need to pay attention to your father's ACTIONS, not his words. His actions have spoken already and he's done nothing or said nothing to apologize for his behavior. You are totally justified in your actions, so stand tall. You are behaving as a decent person, it doesn't matter what others perceptions are.

(((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))))

JoannaC's picture

Thanks everyone!!

Submitted by JoannaC on Thu, 12/04/2003 - 1:12pm.

Thanks so much to all of you:) It helps so much to hear everyone's stories and opinions on this. My gut instinct has been to have pretty much no contact. Like many of you pointed out, that could relieve lots of the stress associated with dealing with such a person. Lynn also said what I have been feeling (and what Charlene and Jamielea have already realized): a leopard doesn't change his spots!

Most of all, your advice and sympathy helped me feel like I'm not a terrible person for wanting my dad out of my family's life, at least for the forseeable future. This is probably the happiest time of my life, and I'm lucky that this is the only (very) dark spot Smiling

Happy holidays and hugs to you all, and thanks again so much Smiling

studmuffin's picture

one more thought

Submitted by studmuffin on Thu, 12/04/2003 - 7:45pm.

or two LOL ..... your father having rights as a grandfather.... well I beleive that you have to put your rights, your children’s and your husband’s rights FIRST. Like Jamielea said

“I know it's hard, it just doesn't seem "normal" to cut off contact with your mom (or dad) but hey, now as a parent myself I know it's not "normal" to treat your children the way my Mom has treated me,”

My mother thought it wasn’t normal or proper to cut her mother off, and I suffered having to grow up around a toxic person who I watched hurt my mother and sometimes be hurful to me....

My husband’s mother’s mom was toxic, and so my husbands mom left to another state to raise her kids. His family, siblings, are all productive, happy, good citizens with very little animosities toward each other. My husband only saw his grandma 2 times. All he knew is that she wasn’t the nicest person, but they still prayed for her and thought loving thought for her. That‘s it, simple, not the sweetest but at least no bad hurtful memories, (like I have). I wonder what would have happened if his mother didn't cut ties????.... gad comparing his family to mine is like night and day. My family was/is dysfunctional in many ways.... his is very peaceful and productive.

And another thought I forgot to mention... about him wanting to have a tour of your house but was going through someone else .... big DUH that was a inappropriate way to go about it.... going through back doors just make my bells and whistles go off that there’s something not sooo honest going on.... I‘m sorry your family doesn‘t see this or support you...... I can totally relate.

Best Wishes

you too Jamielea, in regard to your mother

it isn’t easy cutting ties, if anyone wants to talk about it I’m here for ya’ll... helping you helps me right back

thanks for opening up and sharing Joanna

when handed a basket of lemons make lemonade

Charlene

jennye's picture

Wonder what he's up to

Submitted by jennye on Fri, 12/05/2003 - 7:45am.

Joanna, your very justified in thinking he's up to no good. My curiosity is up now! Please let us know what he is up to when you figure it out! I'm dying to know!!!

It seems most of my family is two-faced. I've had lots of problems growing up. I lived from place to place, with my mom, with my dad and stepmom, with paternal grandparents, with a teacher, with an aunt, with some cousins I just met, and with my stepmom's sister, who I never met til I walked off the plane in Albuquerque, 2000 miles from my home. I get along with them all now, but boy, still today, you don't know whose story to believe about what REALLY happened. Heck, I lived it and know what happened on my end, but my dad's story is, uh, well, different than I remembered. Much different. Laughing out loud

I hope he does nothing else to hurt you or your family, financially or emotionally. Don't let your guard down around him if he does decide to be a part of your family. It's awful to have a father who does that to his own children. I could never to ANYTHING like that to any of my kids, or anyone else for that matter.

Keep us posted! Smiling

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